tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post3279830508234342755..comments2023-09-17T08:05:50.948-07:00Comments on venture philosophy .: The Indictment of Reproductive Slavery and A Voice For MenUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-36832016543202727002013-01-07T16:05:15.824-08:002013-01-07T16:05:15.824-08:00Hi Naomi
That was a great piece of work and very ...Hi Naomi<br /><br />That was a great piece of work and very thought provoking. It is great to have intelligent discourse on this subject from outside the MRM.<br /><br />I think you're being too harsh on AVFM but from your perspective I can see why it might seem that they are just whingers. Dean Esmay pretty much covers this in his comments above.<br /><br />I would add a couple of comments for you to consider. The MRM is very small, just forming, unfunded and doesn't have a clear leadership or policy objectives. It's not unexpected that a lot of MRA's are unfocussed and lack positive direction, much like feminists in the 60's. Moderate and rational discussions like your blog here are fantastic and if shared would provide a focus and redirect a lot of energy more positively. However as a starter a forum like AVFM is needed.<br /><br />Second comment is that one of the most frustrating issues for any MRA is the outright denial of misandry and prejudice against men. Whilst it may seem like a circle jerk to you to bring up personal stories it is, at the moment, necessary because personal stories are the only way available to MRAs to demonstrate their concerns with real evidence. Outright denial of the issue can only be confronted with real evidence and there is no funding available for impartial social research to consolidate the evidence and sanitize the rhetoric. Again its just like the first days of feminism.<br /><br />I am saying these things in the hope you'll have some understanding the MRM needs time and space to grow and form its leadership.<br /><br />Again I commend you on this blog. Excellent research, good focus and a great read.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08656112308730795819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-24528487763662631952012-12-19T12:24:05.920-08:002012-12-19T12:24:05.920-08:00You and your readers may also find this interestin...You and your readers may also find this interesting, which also shows where a lot of us get frustrated, back to that double standard stuff. <br /><br />http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/refuting-40-years-of-lies-about-violence/<br /><br />In case you prefer a link to another source besides AVfM, you can also find it here:<br /><br />http://themoderatevoice.com/171044/refuting-40-years-of-lies-about-domestic-violence/<br /><br />Over at TMV there's at least one or two self-proclaimed feminists who loathe me so you'll probably see some very critical commentary there. But it's hard with these things, when you percieve a huge double standard that seems to you to go unaddressed, and people dismiss it as "conspiracy." Well, not in the way people think of "conspiracies" anyway...Dean Esmayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176356058113531053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-44168785576185158732012-12-18T19:35:53.345-08:002012-12-18T19:35:53.345-08:00I think you are right about that. Mary Kay Letourn...I think you are right about that. Mary Kay Letourneau, incidentally taught at my former school district, was given only 7 years. That was AFTER she was released on a suspended sentence. She was caught with the boy again, and then the judge gave her seven years. <br /><br />Women tend to get hire sentences when it comes to failure to act, which mostly applies only to children. In New York, there was a case involving Nixmarie Brown. Her mother was given 31 years for failure to protect her 3 year old daughter, while the man who killed the girl got about 30 years. I might be wrong on these numbers, but I remember that mom got more time than her boyfriend. Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-39895689763881913612012-12-18T17:06:53.366-08:002012-12-18T17:06:53.366-08:00It is a difficult subject for me to address; my ow...It is a difficult subject for me to address; my own experiences bias me, because I think female offenders usually get a (mostlY) free pass here. You can find my discussion of the matter, which we also promoted on AVfM, here on HuffPo:<br /><br />http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/female-sex-offenders/50b3e38002a76052c60000c8<br /><br />One of the reasons I have a hard time debating on this one way or the other has to do with personal issues. The phrase "trigger warning" bugs me because it's overused, but it's an issue that it's hard for me not to become emotional about.<br /><br />Still, the open debate offer remains there for anyone who wants to, and I might. It's just gruelling.<br /><br />Thanks for hosting this discussion.Dean Esmayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176356058113531053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-91102663539048761602012-12-18T16:31:18.353-08:002012-12-18T16:31:18.353-08:00Here is a comprehensive list of Rape Shield Laws b...Here is a comprehensive list of Rape Shield Laws by State. <br /><br />http://www.arte-sana.com/articles/rape_shield_laws_us.pdf<br /><br />This information may come helpful to you in your work. As you will read, the basic idea of rape shield is the same. "past sexual history, and name publication," There are some exceptions, those exceptions are what vary from State to State. <br />Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-53978183952196811872012-12-18T16:08:00.637-08:002012-12-18T16:08:00.637-08:00Nothing has been removed from AVfM.
You may find ...Nothing has been removed from AVfM.<br /><br />You may find an extensive debate on the matter here:<br /><br />http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/jury-nullification-debate-part-1/http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/jury-nullification-debate-part-1/<br /><br />http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/jury-nullification-debate-part-ii/<br /><br />http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/jury-nullification-debate-conclusion/<br /><br />What "rape shield laws" constitute varies from state to state by the way.<br /><br />I do not agree with Paul's position but as someone who has personally worked to help get innocent men freed from jail (with some success, I note) I do not find it sufficient to merely dismiss his concern, although his position should automatically get him removed from a jury.<br /><br />I have considered taking up the cudgels to debate him myself, although I find some of his points hard to refute, I think there are weaknesses there. There's a lot of work, and I don't find the arguments all to be lightly dismissed. Maybe this is easy for you; if so, you should be aware that the offer of an open debate is there. (Despite the endless claims to the contrary, we publish stuff on AVfM all the time from people who take views contrary to Paul's, or to others'.)<br /><br /><br /><br />Dean Esmayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176356058113531053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-38572368625365989322012-12-18T15:56:24.743-08:002012-12-18T15:56:24.743-08:00I read that article, and Paul's response to it...I read that article, and Paul's response to it. He wrote<br /><br />"Many of the circumstances around rape trials, most certainly rape shield laws, foster a system that prevents jurors from examining relevant evidence in a trial, and they have no way of telling whether such evidence has been excluded." <br /><br />What I find most interesting, is that rape shield laws only mean that the Defense cannot question her about her past sexual history or publish her name. That is it. <br /><br />How on earth does Paul think that a woman's past sexual history is "relevant evidence in a trial". Who she slept with in the past has no baring on whether or not she was raped. It is used only to make her look like a slut. The conclusion being ' sluts cannot be raped because they probably agreed in the first place.' <br /><br />Prostitutes in Hunts Point are raped all the time. Their occupation has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of the alleged perpetrator. <br /><br />The Jury cannot know her sexual history. They must rule according to the Law, the Legal Standards, and the Evidence. That is it. Whether she slept with one man, two, or a thousand is completely irrelevant. <br /><br />Paul would be dismissed and replaced immediately.Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-46901708689124695352012-12-18T15:46:57.292-08:002012-12-18T15:46:57.292-08:00Hi Keith,
The boy could have sued for child suppo...Hi Keith,<br /><br />The boy could have sued for child support. If the parents were still married, they would have had to pay it. In those cases, the State may have been inclined to placing him in a group home, in which case he would not have gotten any money from his parents. <br /><br />I think that family courts make the right decisions only eighty percent of the time. There is a huge financial incentive, and a fair amount of corruption. I participated in a documentary film being made right now called Lawless America. They are on both Facebook and Youtube. Thousands of people from across the country gave a three minute testimony about corruption, at all levels. If you have time, check it out. Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-27295977023553048122012-12-18T13:51:09.463-08:002012-12-18T13:51:09.463-08:00http://menareangrynow.wordpress.com/tag/jury-duty-...http://menareangrynow.wordpress.com/tag/jury-duty-at-a-rape-trial/<br /><br />Hi Naomi, this is PaulineTriage from Youtube. Above is the link to a piece in another MRA journal that references Paul Elam's remarks on juries in rape cases. The piece itself now appears to have been removed from AVFM as all links to it lead to a "broken" avfm link. I'd like to think that taking it down means that Paul Elam is reflecting on the harshness of his position, but probably not. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-51418557438804393492012-12-18T08:33:26.950-08:002012-12-18T08:33:26.950-08:00I enjoyed your article and integrity, its challeng...I enjoyed your article and integrity, its challenging and that's always good. I am a subscriber at AVFM I and many others do not enjoy the circle jerk but seemingly it is necessary. Unfortunately I expect it to get much worse before it gets better. It has become the method for affecting public policy and the loudest seems to win. I call it "take a number and stand in line" progressive socialism. (socialism without drama is just fairness and that's just boring)<br /><br />I'm replying to your comment regarding "Judges will always rule in the favor of the Child." I have always felt the rulings were for the benefit of the state not the child. Do you think it would be viable to allow adolescents at age 14-16 to sue both parents for support and determine their own destination of residency? Do you think it would curb teenage homelessness? <br /><br />Years back a young lad 17 lived with my son and I, both his parents had turned him out so to speak and any help requested was met with battles from both sides. I advised him to go to family court and sue for support but he refused and ended up quitting school and working. I think a few cases in the public consciousness would afford more options to teens rather than homelessness. I am very curious what your thoughts on this would be. <br /><br />keithUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15328083656176026541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-61273605704785120432012-12-17T22:52:23.442-08:002012-12-17T22:52:23.442-08:00Good
Good ByeGood<br /><br />Good ByeRuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-13557294729827565152012-12-17T22:32:50.653-08:002012-12-17T22:32:50.653-08:00ok cool.. I wont post any more. This is my last on...ok cool.. I wont post any more. This is my last one.<br />Remember.. you replied to old comment of mine today.. something like 'Do you still think I have English Degree' LOL. I came by to see what exactly you have done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-17816174079087745502012-12-17T22:23:11.714-08:002012-12-17T22:23:11.714-08:00Why are you still posting comments here?
It is ev...Why are you still posting comments here?<br /><br />It is evident that you actively look to be offended, and see what you want to see. That is obvious. <br /><br />The fact is, if you dislike me so much, then you should not be visiting this blog. Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-29626311389262478422012-12-17T22:12:36.812-08:002012-12-17T22:12:36.812-08:00With so much information online about male birth c...<i>With so much information online about male birth control research and development, much of that information I already linked in this blog, <b>why would John and other AVFM authors, deliberately mislead his readers into thinking that the West does nothing to promote male birth control?</b></i><br /><br />Yawn.. So you searched for JQ1 and nothing came up? Good for you..<br />There were at least two articles on AVFM discussing upcoming technology.<br /><a href="http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/the-next-red-pill/" rel="nofollow">Pill Part 1</a><br /><a href="http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/the-next-red-pill-part-ii/" rel="nofollow">Pill Part 2</a><br /><br />YouTuber Barb also posted on this recently<br /><a href="http://mengoingtheirownway.com/male-contraception-where-do-we-stand/" rel="nofollow">Male Contraception</a><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-31070408702552959942012-12-17T19:48:06.945-08:002012-12-17T19:48:06.945-08:00I must acknowledge, that I agree with your point. ...I must acknowledge, that I agree with your point. <br /><br />The blog I wrote has a lot of content already. I did consider discussing a man's right to opt out of financial obligations to his child. I am in agreement with you. <br /><br />I decided not to discuss it, because having been in many family Courts, written many motions, briefs, and memorandums, I can confidently say that Judges will always rule in the favor of the Child. The Courts will order child support whether or not the father or mother want to pay. It is unfair. I only touched on that unfairness in this blog. Unfortunately, the law will continue to rule in the best interest of children. <br /><br />The best we have is to fund a male birth control, that will reduce the population and give men a lot more control over their lives. <br /><br />I am sorry for not spending more time on this topic. I felt the blog was already too long. <br /><br />NaomiRuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-55342610392203034702012-12-17T18:03:12.091-08:002012-12-17T18:03:12.091-08:00i think your missing the point that women enjoy fr...i think your missing the point that women enjoy freedom of choice up to and including after the birth of a child.<br /><br />most men dont want to "What they do not have the right to do, is force a woman to have an abortion."<br /><br />but your missing the fact that thats not the only option for a woman who doesnt want a child in her life...<br /><br />most men would be happy to financially "opt out" of being a parent to a child they hadn't agreed to become a father to,, this choice while still unavailable to them does NOT interfere with a womans choice of what to do with her body it only gives men more control over their OWN future...<br /><br />you know like women ALREADY have?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-44502710003053722152012-12-17T17:48:53.164-08:002012-12-17T17:48:53.164-08:00I do not want your money.
Supporting the Pill PL...I do not want your money. <br /><br />Supporting the Pill PLUS ONE<br />Being Myself, and telling it like it is PLUS THREE<br /><br />Ruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07513772575580226009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-76569120875658389482012-12-17T12:37:55.689-08:002012-12-17T12:37:55.689-08:00Is Moran not the name of a feminist?
Was this blog...Is Moran not the name of a feminist?<br />Was this blogger perhaps asking if all feminists are like her -as in resorting to the same tactics or following the same line of thought?<br />Would the play on words then be for satirical effect?<br /><br />I'm just thinking out loud. I recognised the feminist's name, but haven't read his article about her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-2951743044979882952012-12-17T10:53:04.410-08:002012-12-17T10:53:04.410-08:00"John argues it is not fair that women have m..."John argues it is not fair that women have many types of contraception available to them, while men have only two forms of contraception."<br /><br />I think the number of choices isn't even the main issue. When you think about men's reproductive choices qualitatively, you'll notice that one is permanent and isn't a realistic option until a man is older and is really done having kids for good. The other is highly conspicuous, requires proper use in the heat of passion, and it diminishes a man's sensation. And some men are also circumcised and are missing a majority of their nerve endings.<br /><br />You can take a pill when you're sober in the morning and that will protect you against a life-changing lapse of judgement after a few beers. A condom also does not affect a woman's experience the way it affects a man's, because she still feels the friction on her skin while he doesn't. It's different. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-57802747029855313472012-12-17T09:48:28.550-08:002012-12-17T09:48:28.550-08:00"The heart of John's argument seems to be..."The heart of John's argument seems to be, if a man does not want a baby, and the woman does, does he have the same reproductive rights as the woman? Can he force a woman to have an abortion?"<br /><br />I believe that reproductive "slavery" implies that men are obligated to raise or pay for unwanted children. I don't think men are asking for a lot, just the right to say "no" to an unwanted child, especially in cases where they had been raped or abused. It's not asking women to get abortions, although I believe some women would choose one as a side effect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-92027258549990117712012-12-17T09:17:19.312-08:002012-12-17T09:17:19.312-08:00You'll get ahead more without the hit piece. ...You'll get ahead more without the hit piece. I'm on board right up until you start to call me (AVfM reader) a whiner and a complainer.<br /><br />Supporting the Pill +1<br />Alienating your audience -2<br /><br />Good Luck, you won't be getting any money out of me with this type of attack.Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01882605740146461384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-53663690204522848542012-12-17T08:31:22.829-08:002012-12-17T08:31:22.829-08:00I am a woman, and a mother of sons. I support and...I am a woman, and a mother of sons. I support and donate to AVFM. I really hope you don't mind my saying, but it's time for men to get angry. It's time for men to start speaking out. Thank you for posting the information about male birth control. You talk about French men crashing cars to force abortions while not mentioning women who have impregnated themselves from punctured condoms, or using the condom later to impregnate themselves, turkey baster style...or even suing sperm donors or statutory rape victims for child support.<br /><br />It's not a nice world out there. We all need to read and respect ALL sides of the story, not just women's.<br /><br />Thank you for listening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-42724873145108404432012-12-17T08:14:48.035-08:002012-12-17T08:14:48.035-08:00By the way, is the term "attention whore"...By the way, is the term "attention whore" really that offensive? It's not even a sexist term. I wrote that title to be funny, as part of a funny show. You can listen to it here:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L48jspWRiHQ<br /><br />Was there something offensive about that show, other than the fact that you don't agree with our naming people who get violent? I'm not sure you'd find that much there to disagree with. In fact I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. But maybe I'm wrong.Dean Esmayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176356058113531053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2509917172803561453.post-18915886766134107412012-12-17T05:02:25.364-08:002012-12-17T05:02:25.364-08:00First off, thank you for acknowledging misandry an...First off, thank you for acknowledging misandry and some serious issues that men face. As someone who's done this sort of advocacy work for more than 10 years it's more than I'm used to seeing; contempt, denial, dismissal, and marginalization are more normal.<br /><br />That said, a few of things:<br /><br />1) I can find no article on AVfM that promotes gossypol or legitimizes this Brazlian doctor's claims, sans John The Other's single personal editorial piece which only implies it. Personally I've always been skeptical of the claims of this Brazilian doctor; one guy claiming this happened almost 40 years ago is not enough in my view. We host many arguments from many points of view; you should be taking issue with JTO here, not all of us.<br /><br />2) We have done substantial real-world work promoting shelters for men fleeing abusive relationships (there are almost none), to expose corrupt public officials and to get innocent men freed from jail and to support political candidates who are friendly to male issues (as few as there are), and to directly try to help suicidal men. See the cases of Vladek Filler, Gordon Smith, and Joel Kirk for examples of this sort of work. The hours spent on this have been enormous, with little to no financial support.<br /><br />3) The claim that we're just a bunch of men sitting around bitching about women who did us wrong was gratuitous. We do see some of that in the commentary, but it's usually from men--and women--who've undergone far worse than just being "done wrong." In many cases we're talking about destroyed lives. Many of them can tell you about that, and the real-world work they've done about it.<br /><br />4) Advocacy work which goes to a specific purpose matters. Exposing hateful deologues (be they feminist or conservative traditionalists) who have actual government policy power is part of that. You are correct that some gender ideologues are nothing but complainers who don't matter; many others are in positions of high authority in government, and in our universities where generations of government policymakers come from. That isn't a conspiracy. By comparison, the men's movement has virtually no political power and almost no funding: not taxpayer money, not tuition money, and very little in the way of charitable donations.<br /><br />5) The recent shenanigans in Toronto involved people practicing real world censorship and assault to those who were trying to make people aware of the problems boys and men face in higher education; the efforts to censor that involved vandalism and violence. Bringing attention to that is legitimate in my view.<br /><br />I'll have up an interview with domestic violence advocate Erin Pizzey in the next day or two that you may want to read and/or listen to. The feminist movement has a lot of power that comes from the enormous amount of money those who lead it have received over the last 40 years. Documentation of that will be provided.<br /><br />Objections aside, I commend you for supporting this birth control work. I'll let others argue whether a man's sperm becomes "a woman's property" once it enters her body. The fact is that you're correct that supporting research on JQ1 is worthy and worthwhile. Thank you for bringing it to our attention--bear in mind, we're ALL volunteers working with almost no resources, and we cannot know everything; we receive no tuition dollars, no tax dollars, nothing but a few donations. I invite you to write an article JQ1 that we can post on A Voice For Men, since it's work worth supporting.Dean Esmayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07176356058113531053noreply@blogger.com